Discussion:
TechWriter
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Jean-Michel
2024-05-04 09:13:15 UTC
Permalink
Bonjour,
I would like to be able to write with correct font, the corresponding
letter for the sets N, R, Z,Q...
I can use the Tex/msbm10 fonts, but it's not very practical.
It would be ideal to add them to the math symbols panel.

All ideas are welcome, thank you
--
Jean-Michel
Jim Lesurf
2024-05-06 08:45:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jean-Michel
Bonjour,
I would like to be able to write with correct font, the corresponding
letter for the sets N, R, Z,Q...
I can use the Tex/msbm10 fonts, but it's not very practical.
It would be ideal to add them to the math symbols panel.
All ideas are welcome, thank you
Not quite clear what you want, but...

Have a look at the "Messages" file and some of the other control files like
"_Config". You can use these to hack changes.

e.g. in my case I use the "x35" setting in "Messages" to let me use smart
quotes in a user-controllable manner. In effect, mutliple presses of a key
then give different gliphs.

Experiment... but keep a backup for when things go pear-shaped, though. :-)

Jim
--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Jean-Michel
2024-05-06 13:49:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Lesurf
Post by Jean-Michel
Bonjour,
I would like to be able to write with correct font, the corresponding
letter for the sets N, R, Z,Q...
I can use the Tex/msbm10 fonts, but it's not very practical.
It would be ideal to add them to the math symbols panel.
All ideas are welcome, thank you
Not quite clear what you want, but...
Not easy,
For mathematical set theory I need to display the letter N for integer
set with TechWriter .
Post by Jim Lesurf
Have a look at the "Messages" file and some of the other control files like
"_Config". You can use these to hack changes.
e.g. in my case I use the "x35" setting in "Messages" to let me use smart
quotes in a user-controllable manner. In effect, mutliple presses of a key
then give different gliphs.
Experiment... but keep a backup for when things go pear-shaped, though. :-)
Thanks I will try.
--
Jean-Michel
Jim Lesurf
2024-05-08 09:00:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Lesurf
Not quite clear what you want, but...
Not easy, For mathematical set theory I need to display the letter N for
integer set with TechWriter .
Post by Jim Lesurf
Have a look at the "Messages" file and some of the other control files
like "_Config". You can use these to hack changes.
Experiment... but keep a backup for when things go pear-shaped, though. :-)
Thanks I will try.
This is one of the moments when I regret, again, the loss of Bob P. He was
very helpful in the past in explaining how users could 'hack' their own
alterations into how TW behaved. I'm not sure if any current manual does
this. He'd have been able to say.

But a lot of 'how it works' is alterable using the various files inside the
!Techwriter directory. Can't be sure it will enable what you wish, but
worth a check/test perhaps.

That said, an alternative might be to hack the *Font* that gives the
maths/greek to change some glyphs to be ones you want instead of existing
ones you don't. :-)

Jim
--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
b***@bcs.org
2024-05-08 13:50:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Lesurf
That said, an alternative might be to hack the *Font* that gives the
maths/greek to change some glyphs to be ones you want instead of existing
ones you don't. :-)
I reckon that would indeed be the safest (and perhaps simplest) method. I
don't know the TeX font you mention, but the free Asana font can be
converted to Acorn format by !TTF2F.

Then its higher Unicode glyphs (like the N: U+2115, C: U+2102, R: U+211D
etc.that you want) can be displayed by !FontInfo from which the glyphs can
be saved out as a Draw files for insertion into a new or existing font
with, say, !DrFonty.

That is to say, you can modify or build a 256-glyph standard Acorn font
with exactly the glyphs you need and apply it as required to text in
TechWriter or any other program.

Bernard
--
***@bcs.org
Theo
2024-05-08 16:47:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@bcs.org
Post by Jim Lesurf
That said, an alternative might be to hack the *Font* that gives the
maths/greek to change some glyphs to be ones you want instead of existing
ones you don't. :-)
I reckon that would indeed be the safest (and perhaps simplest) method. I
don't know the TeX font you mention, but the free Asana font can be
converted to Acorn format by !TTF2F.
Then its higher Unicode glyphs (like the N: U+2115, C: U+2102, R: U+211D
etc.that you want) can be displayed by !FontInfo from which the glyphs can
be saved out as a Draw files for insertion into a new or existing font
with, say, !DrFonty.
That is to say, you can modify or build a 256-glyph standard Acorn font
with exactly the glyphs you need and apply it as required to text in
TechWriter or any other program.
Just to caveat that changing the shape of a font doesn't change what it
means.

If this is for printed use only, then it doesn't matter what the underlying
characters are - what you see is all that matters. But if it's for
electronic use - eg use in email, PDF, web, etc format - then changing the
glyphs won't change the underlying characters. Any time you copy the text,
import it into another program, etc, it will interpret the characters
according to their codes rather than the shape of the glyphs.

For example, you could define '%' to look like 'curly-R' which might display
fine in Techwriter but if you opened the document in Word it'll appear as
percent.

You can work around this by turning everything into a bitmap, but then it's
not editable, resizable, etc. If you convert glyphs into Draw files then
they are resizable, but won't be understood as characters.

The right way to do it is to use the correct Unicode characters and use a
Unicode font with the right glyphs, but I don't know if TW properly supports
Unicode (I suspect not).

Depends what you want, really.

Theo
Jean-Michel
2024-05-08 16:51:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@bcs.org
Post by Jim Lesurf
That said, an alternative might be to hack the *Font* that gives the
maths/greek to change some glyphs to be ones you want instead of existing
ones you don't. :-)
I reckon that would indeed be the safest (and perhaps simplest) method. I
don't know the TeX font you mention, but the free Asana font can be
converted to Acorn format by !TTF2F.
Then its higher Unicode glyphs (like the N: U+2115, C: U+2102, R: U+211D
etc.that you want) can be displayed by !FontInfo from which the glyphs can
be saved out as a Draw files for insertion into a new or existing font
with, say, !DrFonty.
That is to say, you can modify or build a 256-glyph standard Acorn font
with exactly the glyphs you need and apply it as required to text in
TechWriter or any other program.
Bernard
Thank you for your answers. I think I found a solution by creating a style
in TechWriter based on the MathBold style, having just styled the font
Tex.msbm10
This font is provided by installing !DVIView, !Tex and !TexFonts.

By selecting this style and entering the characters using the keyboard Alt
+ 206 => N (set) with the correct rendering.

I'm going to look at the Asana font, it will be a good exercise with
fonts.
--
Jean-Michel
John
2024-05-08 17:33:22 UTC
Permalink
Bonjour, I would like to be able to write with correct
font, the corresponding letter for the sets N, R, Z,Q...
I can use the Tex/msbm10 fonts, but it's not very
practical. It would be ideal to add them to the math
symbols panel.
All ideas are welcome, thank you
I'm fairly sure that there was a suitable font which came
with either Equasor or Formulix. The font family name is
MathOpen.

I take it that you don't have access to it.

John
--
John
***@blueyonder.co.uk
j dot mccartney atte blueyonder dot co dot uk
b***@bcs.org
2024-05-08 22:38:48 UTC
Permalink
I'm fairly sure that there was a suitable font which came with either
Equasor or Formulix. The font family name is MathOpen.
Neither Equasor's MathGreek font nor TechWrite's MathPhys font contains
the required glyphs. I haven't met a font called MathOpen.
Just to caveat that changing the shape of a font doesn't change what it
means.
And thank you, Theo, for your pertinent warnings when using altered fonts.
So, really, only an appropriate Unicode font should be used, and you are
right that TW, like all RISC OS text editing programs, doesn't support
Unicode. Yet?

Bernard
--
***@bcs.org
Jean-Michel
2024-05-09 07:37:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@bcs.org
I'm fairly sure that there was a suitable font which came with either
Equasor or Formulix. The font family name is MathOpen.
Neither Equasor's MathGreek font nor TechWrite's MathPhys font contains
the required glyphs. I haven't met a font called MathOpen.
Just to caveat that changing the shape of a font doesn't change what it
means.
And thank you, Theo, for your pertinent warnings when using altered fonts.
So, really, only an appropriate Unicode font should be used, and you are
right that TW, like all RISC OS text editing programs, doesn't support
Unicode. Yet?
This is a problem when you retrieve text from a PDF file , from a browser
and email.
I have a utility that allows me to do transcription : UTF8 to Acorn Latin1
http://jeanmichelb.riscos.fr/AppliTBox/AppliToolBox.html#UTF8_to_Acorn_Latin_1_
--
Jean-Michel
John Williams (News)
2024-05-09 08:17:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jean-Michel
This is a problem when you retrieve text from a PDF file , from a browser
and email.
I have a utility that allows me to do transcription : UTF8 to Acorn Latin1
http://jeanmichelb.riscos.fr/AppliTBox/AppliToolBox.html#UTF8_to_Acorn_Latin_1_
I use a script in Paul Spranger's ConvText to help me when the accents (F
rench) come back encoded in UTF. Done particularly when we were using Zoom
during the Covid stuff!

It's really no more than a look-up table substitution.

SCRIPT:Zoom Chat
| subsitutes accented character for 2 character Ã... encoding
| useful for Zoom chat messages, for example
| UPPER case characters
À:Â:Â
Ç:Ç
È:È
É:É
Ê:Ê
Ë:Ë
Î:Î
Ï:Ï
Ô:ô
Ù:Ù
Û:Û
| lower case characters
à :à
â:â
ç:ç
è:è
é:é
ê:ê
ë:ë
î:î
ï:ï
Ä«:ï
ô:ô
ù:ù
û:û
| end

John
John
2024-05-09 11:20:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@bcs.org
Post by John
I'm fairly sure that there was a suitable font which
came with either Equasor or Formulix. The font family
name is MathOpen.
Neither Equasor's MathGreek font nor TechWrite's MathPhys
font contains the required glyphs. I haven't met a font
called MathOpen.
I've just added MathOpen (a font from CC) to !Fonts and
used it in body text and a display equation.

I was going to post a JPEG of it on pCloud but I haven't
set it up yet on my RockyRAID. I'll send it to myself and
post it from Linux with a link posted here.

Wait one...

John
--
John
***@blueyonder.co.uk
j dot mccartney atte blueyonder dot co dot uk
John
2024-05-09 11:35:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Wait one...
Wait no more!

https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZ0dDS0Zr6wRtNSjogBC91InktlekhiqxbO7

John
--
John
***@blueyonder.co.uk
j dot mccartney atte blueyonder dot co dot uk
Harriet Bazley
2024-05-09 21:23:21 UTC
Permalink
On 9 May 2024 as I do recall,
Post by John
Post by John
Wait one...
Wait no more!
https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZ0dDS0Zr6wRtNSjogBC91InktlekhiqxbO7
Doesn't seem to work, but this one(?) does:
https://api.pcloud.com/getpubthumb?code=XZ0dDS0Zr6wRtNSjogBC91InktlekhiqxbO7&fileid=61961406551&size=600x315&crop=1&type=jpg
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

It is impossible to enjoy idling thoroughly unless one has plenty of work to do
Jean-Michel
2024-05-10 08:24:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Harriet Bazley
On 9 May 2024 as I do recall,
Post by John
Post by John
Wait one...
Wait no more!
https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZ0dDS0Zr6wRtNSjogBC91InktlekhiqxbO7
https://api.pcloud.com/getpubthumb?code=XZ0dDS0Zr6wRtNSjogBC91Inktlekhiqxb
O7&fileid=61961406551&size=600x315&crop=1&type=jpg
Merci Harriet,

I just tested the MathOpen fonts, we could directly type the desired
character after selecting the style. The result is very correct.



Thank you all for understanding my explanations in ”Franglais•.... :-)
--
Jean-Michel
John
2024-05-10 10:22:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Post by John
Wait one...
Wait no more!
https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZ0dDS0Zr6wRtNSjogBC91InktlekhiqxbO7
https://api.pcloud.com/getpubthumb?code=XZ0dDS0Zr6wRtNSjogBC91InktlekhiqxbO7&fileid=61961406551&size=600x315&crop=1&type=jpg

Ah, yes! My link doesn't work with NetSurf but does with
more capable browsers. I should have checked.

John
--
John
***@blueyonder.co.uk
j dot mccartney atte blueyonder dot co dot uk
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